ARE YOU DATING... OR JUST IN A SITUATIONSHIP?

Cold Open And Premise

SPEAKER_07 0:00

She's seen it all from the bench. He's helped couples through it all. Now they're making the call on the internet's biggest relationship debates. Real relationships, real reactions, real talk. This is Judgment Call.

Micro-Cheating And Self-Worth

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Hello, hello, and welcome back to Judgment Call. I am your favorite Dr. Ish, along with my dear, brilliant friend, Judge Lynn Toba. Judge, how you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:29

I'm fine, Ish. How you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:30

I'm doing fantastic. Now, Judge, you know, we are living in a different place and a different time when it comes to relationships and situationships. Maybe situationships. Would you like to dive in and see what's on the situation ship landscape today? I would love to.

SPEAKER_08 0:50

Judgment call.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Like, just for research purposes, is anyone actually in a healthy relationship where your man is not lusting over other women? He actually wants to make your life easier, isn't liking thirst traps of girls on Instagram, has never once even micro-cheated on you, has never made you question your self-worth or given you anxiety about the relationship as a whole. Does anyone have a genuine solid partner? Because I'm starting to think that me expecting that is too much. Please let me know.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Well, okay. I hear frustration.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

I hear a frustration, I think, that is echoed uh throughout the younger generations. I'm a I'm a boomer, I have to I have to own that. So situationships were not something that were this prevalent back back in the day. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Well, she's uh there's a new term she introduced me to micro cheating, right? And I would love I would love to hear more about that from our listeners in terms of give me some give us some examples of what you guys think that micro cheating is. Maybe it's a um a micro boundary violation, something I don't know, right? But I would love to hear more about educate us about that. I would love to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Yeah, and I'd love to hear about the situationship in general. Like she her question is a good one. Are there good relationships out there? I think there are. Yeah. I think that they don't spend much time on the internet. Do you know what I'm saying? I know exactly what it's good, solid situations. I mean, my husband and I, we're both old. I get that part, but there were strict rules about the internet in our house, about what we were going to do and what we weren't gonna do, and and we abided by those rules.

unknown 2:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

And everybody's there, Judge. If you look at the numbers, right? The research says uh our young people, uh our teenagers and our young folks, you know, early to mid-20s, they're on this thing seven to ten hours a day. Yeah. That's your whole life, right? There's a thing you've got to get up and do today, whether it's school, whether it's work, whether it's have you, and then for the rest of your time, you're on that thing. So there's a lot. Here's what's here's what I heard her say that I don't like, right? That he made her question her self-worth.

SPEAKER_10 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

That is an inaccurate statement. Nobody can make you question your self-worth except you questioning your self-worth. That is an inside job. That is not an outside thing, right? That's a you thing, not a them thing. So I like that, but she's got some stuff going on, man. She does. I like she's she's young, she's vibrant, she's attractive, she's got a fresh manicure. Right? I I love that she's got some stuff going on. And so when you look at a young woman like that, right, finding a good dude shouldn't be that too that much to ask.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

But but and and and I agree with you there, but I think she's echoing a problem that that a lot of people are echoing. And we have seemed to take sides against each other. You know, there's the manosphere and the red pill and this and that and the other thing. And we're doing it because we can get clicks and and and and and money from it, but what it does, it changes the temperature in the room. I d do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 4:15

It it makes it it makes it adversarial. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's it's us against them. Um, and it's and everybody's fighting to win.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah, right. And I can't look weak, I can't look small.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

I can't look weak, I can't look small, I can't get rejected, I can't offer it's the guy's side, I can't be a simp, and I can't be a beta. If it's the woman's side, I gotta be strong and I gotta be independent. Everybody's fighting to win, nobody's really fighting to be together. Right. You know, and so and that's what I'm that's what I'm hearing here. So at some point, now listen, you know, um, so there's that, but on the backside of it, right? If this is what you're attracting, right, relationships are kind of like water. We water seeks its own level, right? And we're never going to meet anybody to be in a relationship with that has not experienced a depth of emotional intention that you yourself have not experienced. So if that's what you're attracting, right? We don't get the better person, we deserve the better person. So maybe it's time she's done the outside work for sure. And I love that. Keep keep that, maintain that, but now maybe look inside and say, okay, what is it about me that keeps attracting guys that make me feel like I've got to perform and prove myself just to keep their attention.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Yeah. My only hope is, my only hope is that people know that you only gotta find one. And that one doesn't have to be perfect when they when you get them. But what you gotta do is both aimed in the same, aim in the same direction and work it like a job, as opposed to working it out on the internet and expecting it to work on its own. Do you know what I mean? You can you can make your own rules.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

As as we say, a relationship is something that requires a personal touch. Right?

SPEAKER_04 6:01

Between the two of you.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Right? At some point you've got to block out the noise and then decide that you're gonna that you're gonna make it how you want it, and then you're gonna stick to it.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

So my judgment is the the answer to her question is yes, there are relationships out there that are solid, good, and dudes that are solid and good. It's just a matter of finding them.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Absolutely. There's a there's a guy out there right now who will sign up for her program. No modifications whatsoever, right? But what she might have to do now, here's a radical idea. This is radical. She might have to put this down. Because he's not on it.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Or he's not on it like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

He's not on it like that. He and if she's on it when she walks by him, he's not gonna say hi. That's true. Because he doesn't he doesn't see his opening. So, right, let him see that bright, gorgeous face, let him feel that vibe and give him an opening, make it make some eye contact, maybe smile and see who you start attracting. Absolutely, absolutely. She should have hope. Right, absolutely. She's got some got some stuff going on. I got hope for her. I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Madison, what do we got next?

Winnie The Pooh Texts Back

SPEAKER_08 7:12

Judgment call.

SPEAKER_09 7:15

No, oh my god, oh my god. No. This is not happening right now.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

Um, this is awkward. I'm currently entertaining three other bitches right now. You were my fave, until you just told me this. Now you gave me the ick. I mean, you are very sexy, so maybe I will get over it. Come over tonight.

unknown 7:40

Continue.

SPEAKER_08 7:42

What did I do the word?

SPEAKER_02 7:44

I was just saying the exact same thing. What did I just see?

SPEAKER_03 7:51

I need to see Winnie the Pool again. I need to see that again.

SPEAKER_09 7:56

This is not happening right now.

SPEAKER_06 8:00

Um, this is awkward. I'm currently entertaining three other bitches right now. You were my fave until you just told me this. Now you gave me the ick. I mean, you are very sexy, so maybe I will get over it. Come over tonight. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

That was hilarious. I don't know what to say. That was hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

When did Winnie the Pooh become the habitat of delivering bad without it?

SPEAKER_02 8:32

That gives me the ick. When you give Winnie the Pooh the ick, how bad does it must it be? How bad does it have to be? But I guess what what we're looking at is I'm entertaining three other bees at this time. So it it it speaks to the situation ship problem that we have these days. That I don't know, nobody seems to be serious one-on-one. I don't know if that's true or if that's not true. I don't think it's true, but I don't know. I feel I feel ancient.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

There's you know, we're living in a weird time. Never has it been easier uh to go out and meet somebody online, right? You can literally see somebody you like five seconds. They know you exist. It's only a matter of time before if they're leaving your it's never been that easy. Uh, but then it's also never been harder to make a real connection. Yeah. Because all of these, we've got all these surfacey superficial connections. That's what a lot of our young people are saying. They're like, listen, you know, I the other thing that we hear a lot of young women saying is we can't really date guys our same age because they're super, super superficial. We need some older guys who can actually give me some emotional depth. So there's a lot of that going on beneath the surface. Now back to Winnie. Listen, first of all, Judge, let me let me call something out. How do you accidentally text somebody? I loved you. How do you accidentally text the person you're dating? I love you. Oops, oops, it was an accident. I didn't need to say that.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

My bad, my bad. I don't know how that works. I don't know how that happens.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

I think she was going, I don't, I'm making a leap. Sounds like she was going for a test drive and going for a test run to see. Let's see if he takes it well, it's a thing, right? If he doesn't respond well, and oh this auto text. You know what I mean? It got me there. So I don't know. Now, the the Winnie the Pooh situation is is interesting on the one hand. First of all, I was deeply disturbed because I like Winnie the Pooh.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

I know. And then when Winnie the Pooh calling somebody a B, it hurt my heart. It did. Talking about giving somebody the ick.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

But but in Winnie's defense, he was honest, he was direct.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

He was honest, he was saying he wasn't polite, but he was honest.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

He wasn't polite, but he was honest. And now, now, okay, so now let's take it, let's peel back some layers. We know Winnie the Pooh and Christopher Robin, each one of those characters represented an emotional state, right? Eeyore was sad, Tigger was happy, damn near mad, right? Piglet was present in the moment, and Winnie the Pooh's character, he was all about the pleasure that's in front of me. Is it a nap or is it honey? What's next? I don't know, right? So it was diabolically clever to pick Winnie the Pooh to deliver. You know what I mean? Because as Pooh is sitting there eating his biscuits and honey, he's like, listen, you know what I mean? He was like, I don't know. I'm kind of occupied with all these biscuits and honey, but you're hot. Can you come over later? Again, right? He is on message for Winnie. Uh, you're a hot and you could come over and we can have some biscuits and honey. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 12:00

I can't beat that ish. What is your judgment call for the lady and Winnie the Pooh?

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Um my judgment is for Pooh because Pooh was direct. It leaves something to be desired, right? If that's the true response, be a man and show your face or send a message and be a real thing. You know what I mean? Uh, however, it was diabolically clever. So I got it.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

It really, really was. It really, really was.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Yeah, Pooh was wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. So, John, is that a thing now? Can we can I get a a Pooh or Tigger avatar and like deliver bad news?

SPEAKER_02 12:43

I was on cameo for a while and I was delivering happy birthdays and this and that, but I did not know that there, but of course, there's obviously ways to do anything now. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Uh well, uh, situation ship Madison. Do we have another situation ship? And please don't tell me this one is Tigger.

Bedrotting And The Toxic Loop

SPEAKER_08 13:04

Judgment call.

SPEAKER_11 13:07

To be brutally bullied. I have essentially been bedrotting for the last week, unable to do literally anything because I have been going through the worst four-year on and off relationship. It's genuinely so embarrassing, and I need to get bullied for it. I'm a cancer, so I'm obviously very emotional. I have not been able to do anything, not create content, barely been going to the gym, barely eating. And my friends are like, Josh, you've gone through this like 15 times already. Aren't you aren't you used to it? No. It actually never feels any lighter. It is like a neuroscientific reason because we are like in this anxious, avoidant, push-pull cycle that literally causes like this chemical imbalance in the brain. Like similar to drugs, like being addicted to drugs. You could do more research on that. I'm not gonna get too into it, but it's like literally being addicted to drugs and going through withdrawals. All because of dopamine, oxytocin, all this bullshit. It's the worst feeling ever, and I would not wish this on my worst enemy. So yeah, that's why I've been pretty MIA. And also my car got destroyed. So that has also been affecting me. It's just like when one bad thing happens, just a domino effect of bad things happening. Just at some point, you have to like decide that it's not you're not gonna let it bother you anymore. Which I feel like over the last three years I have just been addicted to being sad, if that makes sense. It just becomes like a comfortable feeling, you just get comfortable in feeling sad. But we're back now because I have very large goals and I need to get back to posting and get back to my regular routine. If anybody else is going through something similar, it's time to just let go. That's the best advice I can give you. Anyways, I'm just getting ready to go to the gym. Gotta get back into filming content, so hopefully, I can do some of that today at the gym. And you guys will be seeing me a lot more again. Hi Bessie's.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

My comment is inappropriate. Yeah, in what way? All I could think of is how much makeup she's gonna put on her face. She had layer after layer after layer, and she's already beautiful. But that's all I could think about. But what did you make of her opinion about her dopamine and her oxytocin? And what did you make in her assessment of all of that?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yeah, I think I gotta I think um I think she's on to something, you know? Um as as negative as we can talk about TikToks and Instagrams and some of the, you know, all the doom scrolling and all that, there's a lot of there's a lot of really useful information out there. And and she's and she's glommed on to some in terms of what what is that what keeps triggering me to kind of go back to that toxic cycle? Is it love or is it excitement? Is it the dopamine? Is it it's a real thing when we get addicted to the toxicity of it, right? We get we and we start to mistake that hit, that dopamine hit, that doom scroll for okay, we're feeling connected to this thing in the moment. This must mean it's real. And so we go back again and again and again. It's like the the mouse in the maze trying to find the cheese or hitting the bar for the drug, right? It's the thing that keeps us on the ride. And so we keep going back for it. So I think she's accurate there, but I need to start, I need to take it a level deep, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

So what you're telling me, Ish, is that the the high of getting the relationship coming back together and then the mess in and the and the drama, you get addicted to that. And and your dopamine levels go up when you get back together and you go down and they go around and around. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_03 17:09

A thousand percent. It's the triangle of abuse, right? It's the escalation, it's the blow up, it's the fight, and then it's the honeymoon where things are good, right? We also see this in horror movies. It's the horror movie pattern, it's suspense, hence, the jump scare. Oh my God. And then it's the relief. And then and then and we can all relax for a second, and we get we get stuck in that loop because as humans, joy is hard for us to sustain. So you got to give us two other states to be in, and then we're on the ride for good.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

The interesting part of that is she seemed to indicate that it was going on for four years, and she seems to really understand the nature of it. I don't know why she's still stuck in it. You know what I'm saying? If you understand what the problem is, address that problem. It may not feel good in the beginning, but you have to address it. Just because you're stuck in a in a pattern doesn't mean you can't interrupt that pattern.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

You got it.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

What should she do to interrupt that pattern?

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Well, she's got she's got to have some awareness. So many of our relationships are held together less and less by love now and more by this mutual dependency. So what I hear her describing is a codependent relationship. That is, you use the word inappropriate. I saw another I-word, which is incongruent. She's sitting there as lovely as can be, putting on her makeup. Delightful in her demeanor, right? Cleavage, cleavaging, right? It's doing what it's doing. She's lovely, but it didn't match. And she's lamenting the difficulties of her relationship while she's in the midst of a glow-up. It doesn't match. So there's something not connecting there for her. So I don't know if there's a thing she needs to do. This is one of those relationships that kind of peters out and burns out on his own. If you're in a codependent relationship, the way, the way that dissolves magically is one of you changes. Right? She said something that was very interesting. She was like, you know, I think I'm addicted to being sad. I don't think she's addicted to being sad. I think she's just scared to grow. And the second she starts growing, right? You see what I'm saying? The second she starts to grow, that thing changes and he's no longer on her radar because healthy people are no longer attracted to unhealthy people.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah. And the funny thing about being in a toxic relationship, you the devil you know is always better than the one that you don't. So you know what the the feelings are, you know what the happy is, you know what the sad is, you know what the relationship is, but you don't change because change requires you to do to step into the unknown. And I don't think there's any reason to know why you do something that you do if you don't like the fact that you do it and you don't do something about it. That's my thing, is is is you know what it is, not do something about it.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Right. It's it's awareness. And Judge, you know, you've you've seen this. I remember some of those stories you would tell me about the couples who are rocking and rolling and in those abusive situations who came in front of you, and it wasn't the first time they would come in front of you. It was the ninth or the tenth.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah, and and and they stick with it and they stay with it because I remember a young lady was in a horrible relationship. Guy was cheating on her all the time, and she said two things that drive me crazy. He's all that I've ever known, and I don't want to start over. That's right. That's right. And both of those things are no reason to stay.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

That's right. That's right. But our brain gets stuck in that pattern. We like, we are creatures of habit, and we're gonna always choose the thing that's familiar, even if we know it's not all that functional. We get used to get, like she said, you get used to getting through those sad days. Our brain's like, okay, 12 o'clock, we're gonna text. Two o'clock, he will still not have text back, and now we know what to do next because this isn't the first time. And so you just get used to the pattern of it, and that familiar pattern starts to feel comfortable, even though it doesn't feel very good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

When I was uh after my husband passed, I went into that bed rock, you know, where you just kind of can't get up and can't. And then I started writing lists of things to do the night before so I could get up and cross something out. I had to have a a hard target to hit. And maybe if she gets a hard target to hit of something that's unrelated to him, there's a life that's full of a whole lot of interesting, fascinating things in different fields and places, and it's not all about that. And if she has a list of things to do, it kind of helps push you out of that bedrock.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

It does. It does. You gotta uh as humans, we have to have something to look forward to. Right. We do, right? Uh it's uh it's the it's the quintessential thing that makes us human and makes us different. We have hope, right? I hope there's something different I can do tomorrow. And maybe the other part of what we're seeing. Judge with that incongruence is maybe it's her uh in psychiatry. I always tell folks whenever we start a new medication for something, uh, and I tell the partner or the you know significant other or whoever's in the room, I was like, listen, you're gonna see the change before they feel the change, right? They're gonna you're gonna see them less isolated, you're gonna see their face brighten up, you're gonna see them more connected, you're gonna see them looking less preoccupied. You ask them how they're feeling, and they're gonna say the same because they hadn't registered yet. So with her, she's telling the story about this guy. We're backing and forth, it's been three years going on four and we're still in it, I know what to do, but there's no affect. So maybe she's already disconnecting and she doesn't even realize it yet. Right. And now, right? And now her shift is just on the other side.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

So maybe that's where she is, which would be a wonderful thing. It's it it's terrible being stuck in a in a toxic relationship round and round and round. So judgment call is she knows now she needs to do. You got it.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Absolutely make a change, absolutely, and she's so lovely. Go out there and you know, go out there and spread somebody who can treat you right. Madison, am I the asshole?

A Break Becomes A Love Triangle

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Oh yeah, yes. Oh, I thought you were asking me. That's usually yes.

SPEAKER_05 23:19

Am I the asshole for telling my situationships partner I've been messing around with her man longer than they've been together? Gotcha. Gotcha. I, 20 female, have been on and off with Kyle, 19 male, for almost two years now. Well, we wanted to be serious, but we both have a lot of work to do mentally and emotionally, so we decided to take a break. Three days into the break, this person, Emma, 19 female, I added a few weeks ago, posted something about Kyle on her story. She seems cool, so I was trying to be friendly, like OMG, how do you know Kyle? She says, he's my boyfriend. Immediately, I'm sick to my stomach. I say something to the effect of we know we must not be talking about the same Kyle, even though I know for a fact that's the same Kyle. I think she started to pick up on the weirdness I was putting down because she actually sends me a picture of him and it's definitely him. I ask her what she means by saying they're together. I'm hoping that they're just like besties or something. She says they're together. She asks if we're together, and I tell her we weren't serious. We were just in a situation ship and considering getting serious. After a super long conversation with her and her friends, with all kinds of stories, screenshots, trauma dumping. I go to bed. I can't sleep because of the crazy racing emotions. So I get three hours of sleep. I check my phone and he's got some BS excuse and no apology. So I block him. I'm hoping we both dump his ass and move on. She's making lots of excuses for him and being very hesitant. About a day later, something flips. I don't know what happened, but all of a sudden she's blaming me and saying I can't mess up her and Cal's relationship and a bunch of other heinous things. I probably can't even say on Reddit that I'm trying not to let bother me because I know it's she's saying it out of pain. One second they're so sorry and confused. The next they want to kill me. I feel terrible. He never mentioned any friends, let alone girlfriends, but still like I had a part in it. They deserve honesty, but they don't deserve to be hurt like this. Am I the asshole? And she actually added something in here. This is an edit. They've been dating almost three months. We started getting serious two months ago, but there were some complicated flags that made me request a break about a week ago. He's been blocked for three days, and to clarify, I knew she existed, but I did not know they were together.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

I'm so confused. Okay. So they got so Kyle's Kyle's messy. Kyle's very messy. Kyle's got a lot going on, right? Kyle is Kyle is dating multiple women, but Kyle is not openly stating that he's openly dating multiple women. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

But she said she's in a situation. This is what my thing is. What are the rules to a situationship? If it was a relationship, I could understand her being upset about him having, but if it's a situationship, that to me implies my situation is going in in a couple of different directions.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

It's it a situation ship is fluid. She sounds like she was on a direct path to relationship.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

There you go. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah. So um uh I don't uh so so many, so many things. First of all, the first thing that came to my mind was the old friends trope Ross and Rachel, but we were on a break. Kyle's like, look. Kyle's like, look, we were on a break. You said we were gonna take a break. However, the worlds are colliding because the timelines aren't making sense. Those worlds are kind of colliding. There's some crossover there, Kyle. You know what I mean? Um, so I, you know, this is that this is that unspoken sisterhood code that guys don't really get. We're gonna get in here, right? We both know that there's some things we need answers to, and we're gonna share some information so we can both get some clarity here. You know what I mean? So that part I like. I like that part.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yeah, I I just don't know. I mean, I don't know exactly what he's telling her and all this kind of stuff, but it is a situationship. Right. And I it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Kyle, we need to judge. We need Kyle. We Kyle, we need you here, buddy. Right? We need some clarity for that. Only you can offer us.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

There you go. Only you can offer. So so our my judgment call is is let's call Kyle and get some clarity.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

I don't think she's the asshole at all for offering up the information. I think she's absolutely not. Nope, super forthcoming, super honest, and and this this situation ship forced her hand, which a lot of young folks are figuring out, which is oh my goodness, I actually I actually like this person way more than I it way more than I said.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And more than I said, yeah, and the situation ship wasn't enough. I was hoping it would turn into a relationship, and when it didn't, then my feelings got hurt.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

You got it. Judge, what I'm seeing with a lot of our younger couples is that everybody's scared to go first. In every healthy relationship, somebody's got to be the emotional leader, somebody's got to have the courage to go first and say it out loud. Hey, I think I really like you. Maybe is there a chance for this to be more? And don't worry about if it's a yes or no on the other side. She was scared to go first. Hey, I think I like you, Kyle. And every time you pull away and there's some stuff, I don't know, but right, have the courage to go first. And and I always encourage, do the thing that simplifies your life. And sometimes that is simply asking for clarity.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Right, right. And I was gonna go straight to the leave, but I think you're right that there's you're out the door, you're out the door. I've been gone. I've left five sentences into Madison's uh uh recitation there, but I do think there is a middle ground for have a conversation first. So everybody knows where everybody's coming from. The situationship is not good for me. I would like a relationship. What's happening? What are we doing? And you know, then if you don't get a good answer, do the little thing and leave.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

And and because now it's the poison pill. New our new lady Emma, she's never now her her trust in trying in Kyle is wee down now. Now she's gonna always wonder. Am I now am I her? Am I, you know, am I the one who's who's getting left out in terms of information? So it's a lot, Kyle. Okay, Kyle, come on, come on in here, brother. Let's talk.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Madison, what do we got next?

SPEAKER_08 30:12

Judgment call.

When Your Ex Dates Your Twin

SPEAKER_00 30:15

You know the horribly toxic on-again, off-again situationship you had in college, you know, that lasted for years and you were back and forth and absolutely blew up your life at the time? I feel like we all had one, okay, right? You are never going to believe the text I got last night. Okay, so it's been quite some time since we've been in college. I haven't thought about him in years. I don't think he's thought about me in years, all right? With it's been a freaking minute. However, my friend texted me last night and it said, This shit is whack. I quote. This shit is whack. And so I'm like, oh my god, what shit is whack? What shit is whack at midnight on Saturday? Okay. Um, so I go, I look at her text, and it is a screenshot of his story. And he is dating a girl that has the same name and hair color as me. Oh are you? Okay, so we may not be thinking about each other, but clearly I made quite the impression on your subconscious, honey. What I'm hearing is that I live in your headrent free. Um and I wish them the best. I do. I mean, I would love it if he's with a strawberry blonde slash ginger emma for the rest of his life. That's not me, thank God.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Um but um please, yes, please, yes, ma'am, please.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Why didn't he care? I wouldn't care. I mean, I I I just wouldn't care. I mean, I guess it makes you feel good to feel like you have settled into some somebody's soul so solidly that they date they now date other versions of you. I think that's a little arrogant. Maybe she's a version of the chick before that he had before. You don't know. Right? You don't know what what number in line you are.

SPEAKER_10 32:03

You went there?

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Well, it's true though. I mean, it's to to to gloat over something like that presumes a whole lot that you don't know about. There's a lot of discovery that hadn't been done.

unknown 32:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

There are the presumptions and assumptions, all of which are fun to feel.

SPEAKER_04 32:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

But um, yeah, I don't even know why that's fun to feel. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

I get where you're coming from. So, you know, I'm a I'm a cancer, right? Birthday is June 28th. So not only do I feel all the feels, but I hold on to all the feels. Like every breakup, every when everything comes to an end, there's always that little nagging doubt in the back of your mind. Was it me? Was there something? Was it is there something that wasn't good enough about there's that kind of that nagging doubt? So when you ask the question, why does she care? Maybe there was a little nagging doubt for her. Was it something? Right? Was it was it me? Is there something? And now this is confirmation that in fact it wasn't, you know. Uh so maybe, maybe that's what kept, you know, that's maybe that's where this felt so good for her because it was confirmation that okay, yeah, yes, that's right. It wasn't me because he's dating my doppelganger now. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Every guy though, Judge, we've got this. Um remember that old movie Chasing Amy? Yes, I do. You remember that? Yeah, I do, I do. Amazing movie, super popular because it was true. If you if from a guy's standpoint, that masculine energy being, and you had that one, you know, and it's like, man, I think this could have been it. Yeah, right? This could have been it, and for whatever, however, it comes apart, it came apart, and you don't get the girl, right? And but but you're forever now chasing Amy, you know? Yeah, uh, so maybe in this case situation, maybe she did leave that impression. Maybe could have been maybe he's not chasing Amy, he's chasing Emma, and right, and he's getting as close as he possibly can. Right? I don't know, but uh if we're looking at it through the rosiest of rose-colored glasses, maybe maybe it's that for her. You know what I mean? So I'm so I'm glad she got that good feeling. And she don't have to gloat about, she's gloating a little too much.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Yeah, I guess it's a personal thing on my part too, because because I'm I'm really, you know, once you're an ex, you're an ex. I can't see you. I can't, you know, you come by the house with 20 naked women, I won't care. I'll shake all their hands. I don't, you know, once it's over, it's over for me. And I think that's I'm a little drastic in that in that way.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Well, and and also, right, it can never truly be over for our young people because guess what? It's all here. That's true. It's never over, right? Somebody's always got a new comment, a new post, a new, a new thing, absolutely, a new connection. So it can never really be over. I don't know how they navigate that. I do, I just don't. That's a tough thing because now relationships work when there is a clear beginning and an ending. Some people come into your life for a good time, maybe not a long time, but right, there's a there's a you can bookend it, you know? Right. When you can't bookend it, like our young folks are having trouble bookending it, the next just one situation bleeds into it.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Another situation to another situation, and nobody's ever really disconnected because they're always connected online.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Yeah, you can't be free. That's a lot of emotional labor because you know, however long ago this was, she's getting the notification at midnight, and she's like, ha ha, yes!

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah, you can never truly get away from it. You can never truly get away from it.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah, that makes it extra relationships are messy enough. This makes it extra messy now.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Not judgment call is get over it.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Get over it, get over it. Yes, he's dating your, you know, your ginger doppelganger and feel good about it. But I think I don't know what I think. I think, yeah, I I think you're on it, right? She took a little too much joy. Yeah, it was if you're truly over it and you truly don't care, then this doesn't register as high on your emotional radar. But at the same time, I I think, and I gotta, I gotta, I gotta think that there may have been a part of her that wondered, well, what was it? Is it was there something about me that didn't work for him? Uh we all we all it's a human thing. We all wonder at the end. We're like, was it? Do I need to? Am I? Or you know, and at some point you realize that it wasn't you, you know, but maybe this was one of those things that kind of helps move her forward to that. If that's the case, then it's all then it's all good.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I always thought if it was me, it still didn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

Right. They just want your person, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Because if he didn't want what I had, that's fine, because I don't want what somebody else has. So you know, even if it is me, it don't matter.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

It's just people would have that attitude more, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah, well, you so you what you you want people to have like a healthy ego? Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, just just be okay, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Just be okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

That's the that's the product of knowing that who you are is enough, and a lot of folks just don't know that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Yeah, well, I hope everybody learns. Yeah, well, Madison, what do we got next?

Ending A Years-Long Situationship

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Another asshole.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

I really like these, man.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah, I do. I do too.

SPEAKER_05 37:19

Am I the asshole for ending a long, complicated situationship and moving on with someone else? I met her in March 2019, which was seven years ago, and fell in love. I confessed in October 2019, she didn't feel the same way and told me to move on. Even though that happened, we kept talking and got very close. During COVID lockdown, which was March to May 2020, we shared some intimate moments online. After that, she said it was a mistake and again told me to move on. Still, we kept talking and she started calling me her best friend. For one and a half years, nothing really happened between us, and we didn't meet as she shifted to a different city. Then 2023, we met again, had some intimate moments in person. Had some intimate moments in person. She still didn't feel the same way about me. In August 2023, she slept with another guy. She said she felt bad about it, but also said it wasn't cheating since we weren't officially dating. I didn't argue about that and kept telling myself it's not cheating, even though it felt pretty bad. After that, we kept talking. We would meet every few months, about every three to five months. There would still be intimacy, but no commitment from her side. She often said it wouldn't work out between us because we can't get married because our parents wouldn't accept it due to the fact that we're in different castes. They have Indian parents. In 2025, she started saying that she might love me, but she was still unsure about our future, whether we could marry or not. She said she would officially date me if our parents approved. By the end of 2025, I felt emotionally exhausted. The differences between us became more obvious, and we had changed from what we used to be. We argued more, she started expecting time from me, which I couldn't always give due to my busy college schedule, which led to more frequent fights. Around that time, I started developing feelings for someone else. In March 2026, I ended things with her and got into a relationship with this new person. Now I feel guilty. Even though I'm happy in my relationship, I keep thinking about her. And I wonder if she might be sad or depressed because of me while I while I've moved on and am enjoying my life. That thought makes me feel like I've done something. So am I the asshole for ending things with her and moving on with my life when she was finally ready to reciprocate?

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Great post. Great post. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

You know, it is what it is until it isn't anymore. And it was what it was, and she didn't change in time. You moved on. And I don't see any reason why you should, you know, if she didn't want you, didn't want you, didn't want you, had all kinds of reasons, all kinds of reasons, all kinds of other things. You were lovable. You found that out by with with somebody else. I don't even know why you would think about it.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

That's right. That's right. She may have missed her person. She treated him like a placeholder and not a priority. Exactly. There was ample opportunity over time, over a period of year, almost 10 years now, right? To come and go and every the glancing blows, and at each point, who he was was never good enough for her to lock him in. Nope. Nope. Right? Right? So, so so that's the thing. So wow. And again, in every dynamic judge, we call it situationships to try to bring down the emotional temperature so it doesn't have to hurt as much if it doesn't go how I want, you know what I mean? But it sounds like he really liked her, man.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

But and he did everything he could for as long as he could, and he found someone who really liked him. And it's it and it's nice to be special in a relationship. And if you're not special and you've not been not been shown that you're special, you have no obligation to remain.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

You have no obligation to remain. He gave her every opportunity and showed up in multiple different ways, online, offline. Here I am in 2019, here I am in 2023. Right? He gave her multiple versions, multiple choices, and and she never and she never picked. So I don't think he's got to be the asshole at all.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

I don't think at all. I mean, my judgment call is definitely he is not the asshole.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Put put that bag of bricks down and move on and be happy with this person in front of you. You know what I mean? Now, and again, easy for me to sit here and say it sounds like um she was living for the expectations of her parents. I didn't grow up in that kind of caste system. I don't very, very different culture. Very very, very different culture. So I don't understand how that works, but I think everybody's got a right to pick the person they love, you know? Yeah. Um, and if you find somebody, if you are lucky enough to find somebody who loves you back and who's picking you back, then my God, your parents made their choices, let them live their thing, right? But what we we're living in very different times now, right? Right? Yes, yes, the traditions apply. Yes, they mean something, it matters, and the old rules apply, but but the world your parents picked each other in is not the world you're living in.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

And their parents, because they're from different castes, they're it's not necessarily an easy thing to bridge because it the caste system over there is is much more deliberate. It's firmly in place. It's firmly in place for thousands of years, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

So it's firmly in place. So that's so that's tough, you know. Uh at some point, you know, I heard you, I heard you, I heard you tell this story when you said, hey, when I when I picked Eric, it was one of the first times I stood up to my to my mom, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:18

That's true. That's so true. And I mean, my mother and I were extraordinarily close. I was 27 years old and I picked him and and we didn't speak for six months, but I knew he was my person. That's right. You know, and so the other things did not matter because he was my person.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

And and look how beautifully that worked out. Yeah, yeah, right? Right. And so I wish her, I wish her a way to find the courage that you found. Yeah, you know, and pick and pick your person and live your life.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Live your life, but you're not an asshole. If you've you've loved somebody for 10 years, they didn't love you back, and now you find someone who did.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Right, right, absolutely. So he deserved it. He's earned he's earned it. You know, it's like you don't you don't get a better person, you deserve it. He knew he deserved more, and when he found it, he grabbed it. He's the goal, that's where he is now.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Just let, like you said, let go of the bricks.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Go and be happy, man. Go ahead and be happy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Situation ships, ish. Situationship, all right. Here

Define The Rules And Go First

SPEAKER_02 44:19

we go. I guess what you have to figure out in any situation ship is what are the rules to your particular situation? Aren't the aren't the boundaries so nebulous, huh? Yeah, they just, you know, so you have to define them for yourself. You have to get your person say you can't say, well, it's just a situation ship, so we're not gonna talk about it, but you got to talk about it, even if it's just a situation ship.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Like our young lady who's talking about the micro cheating. Well, that's probably gonna be different for every single person on the planet, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Absolutely. What's going to show up as a micro cheat to you is different than it's gonna show up with a micro cheat to me.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Absolutely. So you got to have the conversation again. It's it's emotional labor that's required when you're interacting and interfacing with another human. Somebody's gotta go first. Yep. Somebody's gotta say the thing out loud first, and then you'd be amazed how much easier and how much clearer the path forward can be.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

And don't be afraid of the answer. Know that you you you you you you have enough center and enough self that that whatever the answer is, it won't take you out.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Right. It's not it's not gonna gut you, it's not gonna destroy you. It doesn't have any other meaning other than she's not your person or he's not your person. That's all it means. That's all it means. That's all it means. Ish, it was fun. Oh, we oh, we're done. Okay, situationships was this was oh, did you have more to say?

SPEAKER_02 45:43

I just I just ended it. You know, did you have more to say?

SPEAKER_03 45:46

No, no, no. I thought we had another situation ship video. We are we are we done? We're done. We're done.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Okay, we're done. Yeah, yeah, I had a good time.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

It's always fun, it's it starts off messy, and I think we uh we do our best to add some clarity. At least every once in a while, always fun. And again, I want to hear, especially on these situationships now, because everybody's situation is a little bit different. I want to hear from some of our listeners about I want to hear some of their best situationship stories, yes, you know, and what they think the rules for a situation ship is. How do you set up the dynamic? What right?

SPEAKER_02 46:24

What does it mean?

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Right? Are we coloring what constitutes coloring outside the lines for you? What's the bout? I want to hear about that. I want to know about that.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

All right, catch you next week. Always a pleasure, my friend. Yes, yes. Yes, see you next week. Next week. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_07 46:41

She's seen it all from the bench. He's helped couples through it all. Now they're making the call on the internet's biggest relationship debates. Real relationships, real reactions, real talk. This is Judgment Call.