HIS VOICEMAIL MADE THE JUDGE, THE DOCTOR—AND OUR PRODUCERS FURIOUS

Welcome To Judgment Call

SPEAKER_05 0:00

She's seen it all from the bench. He's helped couples through it all. Now they're making the call on the internet's biggest relationship debates. Real relationships, real reactions, real talk. This is Judgment Call.

SPEAKER_08 0:19

Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode five of Judgment Call. Dr. Ish, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_07 0:26

I'm doing great, my friend. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_08 0:28

I'm doing fine. This is I'm Judge Lynn Toller. I'm here with Dr. Ish, and we are going to show you, tell you our judgment call on these interesting cases that we have today.

SPEAKER_07 0:39

Yes, yes. We've got some pretty good picks so far, and uh, I'm excited to see what's on the medium, what's on the schedule for today.

SPEAKER_08 0:48

Sh shall we ask Madison what's up?

SPEAKER_06 0:50

Yes, indeed.

The Work Crush Fantasy Loop

SPEAKER_08 0:52

Madison, what's up?

SPEAKER_06 0:54

Judgment Call.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Well, Diva's our work crush updates are sad today because he is not here. And if you've watched the video yesterday, you know that I had plans today to tell him that his haircut looked good, but I can't tell him that if he's not here. So let us pray that tomorrow he is here, and then maybe tomorrow I can be like, ooh, I missed you yesterday. And then he will realize that he loves me.

SPEAKER_08 1:21

Then he will realize that he loves me. That last part.

SPEAKER_07 1:25

That last part. That last part.

SPEAKER_08 1:30

She's got her whole fantasy going. You know, she's she's actively engaged in this relationship that isn't there yet.

SPEAKER_07 1:40

Yeah, I you know, she just needs him to show up and play his part and not screw up her story.

SPEAKER_08 1:47

And she's got it all written, you know, just realized it's like, but you know, I think a lot of people sometimes we we think about something, we think about it, we ruminate over it, we wonder why we we do all of that, and it becomes it becomes real to us. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 2:06

Yep, it does. It does. And it's and what we've got going on between the ears is more real than anything that we're seeing in our reality, because that's you ever have one of those dreams, you know, where you're, you know, where you wake up mad because something happened in the dream, right? You can't take that mad feeling for the first half of the day.

SPEAKER_08 2:25

Yeah, and it never really happened, but but it's in between your ears.

SPEAKER_07 2:30

But it's real. Now, here's what I here's what I do love about her. Um, you know, one of the biggest barriers to being in love is you first have to believe that who you are is lovable, right? Absolutely. It sounds like she has cleared that hurdle. You know, she's she's like, right? She's cleared that hurdle. She's like, listen, here's what it is. I am adorable, and this is my crush. And all he is just a matter of time before he sees how adorable. I love the playfulness, the giddiness, the joy, the innocence. Yeah, because remember the innocence, it's gotta, you gotta have a part of that, right?

SPEAKER_08 3:04

All he needs to do is drink me in, and he and he will have drunk the Kool-Aid and be in love with me.

SPEAKER_07 3:13

That's it, that's it. And I the playfulness, you know, it takes me back to the the butterflies in your stomach when you're standing at the locker, and the person you like might be walking by. You think you timed it right in high school, you know, it's like all of that. It's like, wow, it's there. Now, the psychiatrist of me was looking for anything dark, anything sinister, anything that gave starker vibes. I didn't see that. I think she's just fun. No, she's just fun.

SPEAKER_08 3:38

And it wasn't that she was delusional, she kind of knew it was off, but you know what I mean? But she was, hey, I'm enjoying this. I've got this whole life in my head, and and and and I'm gonna enjoy this. And isn't that nice to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_07 3:53

Right, right. It's a it's a nice place to be able to go and keep it in perspective.

SPEAKER_08 3:58

Yeah. So what's your judgment call? Uh is she?

SPEAKER_07 4:02

I think I think my judgment call is for the vibe. I love the vibe. Keep it fun, keep it playful, keep it light, and believe that who you are is absolutely adorable. And all people, all the world has to do is drink a little of the Kool-Aid, like you said. You too will see that I am adorable.

SPEAKER_08 4:20

Believe you're lovable, but never demand love. Do you know what I'm saying? Believe you're lovable, but you can't demand it from anybody specific. So I'm I'm I'm feeling the playfulness too.

SPEAKER_07 4:31

So judgment call is for her. Judgment for Miss Playful. Keep it, keep the keep the playful work bound. Keep it playful. Fun.

SPEAKER_08 4:41

Yeah. What do we got next, Madison?

The Tacky Hookup Voicemail

SPEAKER_06 4:45

Judgment call.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Had a good time tonight. Definitely think you are lovely. Um, however, I would love to, if we're gonna go to your place on Thursday, I mean, I am looking to have that um physical intimacy um to see if like I am sexually compatible with you. Um so like if I'm gonna come over, like I would be hoping to like hook up, have sex, have a good time, have like that romantic spark and that physical spark there um for my own sake, um, because it's hard for me to continue dating if dating someone and seeing them if I don't know if I'm sexually compatible. So um, I know you said I don't know about that. So, like I guess my thing is is like what would be the point of me coming over then if we're not gonna like hook up and like cuddle and like be intimate with each other. Um, and if that's what you don't want, that's fine, but like I think we should just like end it here then respectfully, just because I first date that's fine. Like, you want to get to know each other, I'm all about that. But like I am looking to have that physical aspect there, and I don't want to continue seeing someone if I don't know if that's good, if if that's not there or not. So up to you. Let me know. I'm happy to um if you do want me to come over, I'm I'm happy to do so. Would love to fuck, have a good time, and you know, we can have some wine, hang out, and chill. But if you're not trying to hook up, then like I think we should just uh go our separate ways. Let me know.

SPEAKER_08 6:21

Ish Matt No, Madison, what was that?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

What was that?

SPEAKER_08 6:27

I think I've heard this before. I think I have heard this voicemail before, and my response to him immediately is nah.

SPEAKER_07 6:42

I mean, like as a woman, right? As you as you're as you're listening to this and putting yourself in her shoes, just what what goes through your mind where you as he's delivering his um, I don't know, would you call that a bitch? I don't know what you call that.

SPEAKER_08 6:57

Nice try, brother. You know, nice try. You you you you you you're trying to sell me sex. Right? Yeah. You're trying to get me to give you some sex based upon your need to determine whether or not you want to continue to date me. That clearly is not gonna get you anywhere with me. And I don't think it's gonna get you anywhere with most women. I mean, now on one on one hand, you have to you have to acknowledge his honesty.

SPEAKER_07 7:28

Absolutely. Absolutely. He didn't lie about what he was trying to do. On the if there is a silver lining here, he's got the honesty thing going. He went a place where 90% of guys will never tread, which is I'm telling you what I want, and I'm telling you what I'm thinking, and this is what I'm expecting. And if that can't happen, then I don't want to waste your time. Now, the delivery leaves a lot to be desired. I'm talking about tacky.

SPEAKER_08 7:58

That's the only word that came into my mind. Just tacky.

SPEAKER_07 8:01

Tacky tacky. Listen, to the young lady who got the voicemail, you have to be grateful for the people who chose not to choose you, right? And so this is that case with this guy then counts your lucky stars. He just saved you three to six months worth of time, trouble, headache, annoyance, endless nights out with the girls asking them, I don't know where he's coming from. You now know exactly where he's coming from, right?

SPEAKER_08 8:26

You don't have to wonder or worry about what this guy is about. He has told you. And if you go, that doesn't change the rules. Consent is consent is consent. And I don't care what prelude he put on that conversation. You got it's got to be a yes at the time of the time.

SPEAKER_07 8:50

And here's what I here's what I want. Every every person out there listening with an abundance of feminine energy. The rules to this relationship dynamic do not change based on the time. If that goes on for three months, for six months, for nine, or twelve, he is still only in it for the casual thing, right? Because a lot of times we feel like, well, it was we've been doing this for 12 months. Surely we've got to be exclusive by now. No, no, no, no, no. This is the way it was set up. And unless there's a specific conversation that changes the parameters of the hookup, then this is the way it's gonna continue. So don't get don't play that trick in your mind.

SPEAKER_08 9:31

Yeah, and we were talking about your mind. Don't tell yourself a story in which it ends up happily ever after, even if his actions change a little bit. You gotta understand where he's coming from.

SPEAKER_07 9:44

Got to. Gotta understand where he's coming from. Now, I just I uh, you know, I do a if I'm in session, we'll do a little role play every now and then. It's like, okay, here's how we're gonna practice this hard conversation you're about to have. May I have 30 seconds to help him reframe that conversation. Right? There's a way to leave that voice message. And it goes something like this Hey, you know what? You are just super lovely, and I adore the time we had together, and I really would love to keep seeing you. Gotta be honest, I'm not interested in anything super serious. All I'm here is for something casual. Would love to continue to go out, hang out, and hook up time to time. If you're down with that, then I would love to keep seeing it. If not, I'm probably not your guy. There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_08 10:33

Give me the truth and give it to me in a way that makes me feel like I have some dignity when you quit talking. Like, let me take you on a test drive. It's basically what he said. Let me take you on a test drive to see if I want the car. I mean, that's you know, I'm not a Subaru.

SPEAKER_07 10:49

Who says that? Listen.

SPEAKER_08 10:50

I'm not a Subaru. Even though there's nothing wrong with Subarus. I don't know anything about cars. It's just the car that came to my mind.

SPEAKER_07 10:56

Now, listen, now listen, before we before we put a judgment call on this one, let's let's hear from the listeners out there. Guys, tap in into the drop into the comments and let us know what you think about the tone, as you say, just the tone and the tenor of that voicemail. And where where's your judgment call? I want to hear from the folks out there.

SPEAKER_08 11:16

I I'd like to hear from everybody. I'd like to hear the ladies about how they would like to hear what they would respond to when they heard it and what the dudes think. I mean, is the honesty should the honesty simply should the honesty?

SPEAKER_07 11:29

It's the heat. It's hot out there.

SPEAKER_08 11:32

Should the honesty simply be applauded, or do we have to walk a little further and pay that tape a little further down the line?

SPEAKER_07 11:41

Yeah, I really, I'm really interested to know. Like I said, I applaud the honesty, but the tact, man, the approach was just it was really tacky.

SPEAKER_08 11:50

It was tacky. I mean, that that's the word that keeps popping in my head. Tacky.

SPEAKER_07 11:53

Do you remember the season, Judge, where we had uh the Duggars on, Dylan and Amy? Uh lovely, lovely company. Right? You remember that? And I do. And it was all about his tone. And you pointed that out to him. Do you remember that? I remember that.

SPEAKER_08 12:09

He he had this this this sense of arrogance, this this sense, and he never said anything bad, but his tone was always um condescending.

SPEAKER_07 12:19

Right, right. And that's what I just heard there.

SPEAKER_08 12:22

Yeah, the the wrong tone.

SPEAKER_07 12:25

Right, wrong tone, wrong tone. So your your judgment is for Praetel.

SPEAKER_08 12:30

My judgment is for her to stay home and stay happy.

SPEAKER_07 12:35

Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah, just and and be grateful. And be grateful tonight he saved you. Yes.

SPEAKER_08 12:42

There you do, there you do. But I really would like to hear what everybody else thinks.

SPEAKER_07 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 12:47

Because young folks, I mean, I'm I've been out here for a while. Young folks, the rules have changed today, and I don't know how much they've changed.

SPEAKER_07 12:54

Drastically, evidently a lot. I that's not a message me and my guys ever left. So I heard that. I heard that.

SPEAKER_08 13:02

Madison, what do we have next?

Vape Etiquette And First-Date Boundaries

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Judgment call. So I went on a double date the other night, and it was a girl that I never met in person. She brought her friend, I brought my friends, we had a great night, went to a restaurant, a lounge after, and maybe like two or three drinks in, I see her friend hit a vape. Me, alcohol, nicotine, they go very well together. I'm allowed to have a vice. I asked to hit this person's vape. I don't think anything of it. Maybe I hit it two or three times throughout the night. I'm not sure. And the next day when I'm recapping the night with the girl I went out with, she tells me how upset it made her that I hit her friend's vape. And it was not because I hit a vape, which is strange. It's because it was her friends. She was like, you literally made out with my friend. That's how she described it. And she was kidding, but like, you know, she really wasn't. And it just made me think like you need to be careful with your boundaries. You can draw as many boundaries as you want, because she was trying to draw one with me. You're not supposed to hit my friend's vapes around me. Okay. The more boundaries you draw, the more that will be broken. Do you know how many friends I have who are married or have girlfriends, and their girlfriends are wives? Get very upset with them if they hit a vape ever. And we go to dinner together, and the second those girls go to the bathroom, they say, Give me your fucking vape right now, the guy. And everyone takes out their vape so this guy can hit one year's worth of nicotine while his girlfriend's in the bathroom. Girlfriend comes back, nothing ever happened. Vapes away. Life is good. It's wrong, I'm sorry, but this is life. Like, choose your boundaries.

SPEAKER_08 14:44

Now, Ish, I gotta ask you a question before I say anything else. What is vape etiquette? I don't know what vape etiquette is. You're younger.

SPEAKER_07 14:55

Yes, yes. So here's here's where we're all on vape etiquette. Once you graduate high school, there is no such thing as a communal vape. Okay? Right? Vape, it's a supply and demand. In high school, one or two people have them. You're gonna huddle up in the bathroom. Hey, everybody gets a little turn when it's when it's bathtime break. After you graduate high school, you're an adult. You can, it's gonna be 30 minutes to an hour max before you get to a place on earth that has a vape you can buy.

SPEAKER_08 15:26

I gotcha. I gotcha. Now I'm I'm old school. Mm-hmm. I'm from the Puff Puff Pass generation. Is this different from Puff Puff Pass?

SPEAKER_07 15:39

This is different culture, right? That's weed culture. Weed culture, that's we're here to share in this thing together, right? And be and match the same vibe, puffing from the same thing. Vape culture is a little bit different. Now, in your friend group, yeah, you can do that, right? Your guy group, your girl group, yeah, you can, but a first date, a double date, there's some vape etiquette that I think was missed here. You know what I mean? I I really do. It's a it's an intimate thing. It's an intimate thing. That's what I was just about to say. It's a little sexual. Right, exactly. It's a little sexual. It's it's not a little sexual, it is a lot sexual. Because listen, there are okay. Big picture, it's the first date, she set a boundary. Either you gotta get with the boundary or you get gone. She's not your person. That's the thing. But if we're being honest, right? If we're if we're being honest and looking at the subtext, it's an intimate thing. You're putting your lips where her friend's lips were. Right. Okay. That's just and and and is her friend cool with that, or is her friend going along because she doesn't want to be the asshole in the situation and making a big deal about it? So he's putting everybody in an awkward situation. Uh, it's I think it crosses the line. And I don't like the fact that he immediately jumped on TikTok to get some justification and some validation to try to rally the troops behind his cause.

SPEAKER_08 17:06

Right, yeah. And I was a little concerned about his comments on if you draw too many boundaries, you know, you know, as if I don't know, people don't have the right to say, I'm not cool with this on a very personal level, because this is very, very personal. This is her best friend, this is her man, this is a semi-sexual, you know, seemingly intimate act. And for her to be honest about how it made her feel, that that to me made a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_07 17:38

It made a ton of sense. He's way too familiar way too fast. Way too familiar, way too fast. That's just too much. And then the thing of it is, okay, okay. In my germaphobe mind, I'm like, you know, this is her tight girl, this is her best girl. There are things she knows about where her girlfriend's lips has been that you don't know.

SPEAKER_08 17:58

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 17:58

That she may not want to join. Right? She may not want an indirect transfer from her girlfriend's lips to yours and now possibly to mine. But we gotta think all of these, we gotta think about all of these things. And the justification was weak. Oh, I know married groups and that. Okay, that's great, but that's a whole different subculture. That's a different set of friends with a different set of dynamics. You're here trying to be on your best behavior, and that was just a little too familiar too soon. And I'm and I'm happy she set that boundary.

SPEAKER_08 18:26

Yeah, and and having a boundary, I mean, it's a very personal thing. And to worry about the number of boundaries that somebody has, you know, out of that one boundary. Well, if she's gonna have all these boundaries, you know, I it's it's gonna be too hard, it's gonna be conflicting. And if somebody does have too many boundaries, it is hard to get close to them. But I don't think this was an unreasonable boundary, especially after the first date.

SPEAKER_07 18:52

The first date, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 18:53

Now, if y'all have been hanging out for months and you're on the couch and then you had a vape and everybody was that would be one thing. But on the first date, it was a little much.

SPEAKER_07 19:02

It's a little much. There's some familiarity there. It's um, you know, I got one word for for him, and I got a same sentence for her, which is relax about it. It's the first date, feeling each other out, you know what I mean. He's there's you don't have to pre-warn her about setting too many rules and boundaries. And and for and for her, hey, he's giving you a glimpse into his lack thereof, you know what I mean? So, right, you don't you both have the option now of not signing up for date number two.

SPEAKER_08 19:33

Yeah, so my judgment call is she made the right call.

SPEAKER_07 19:37

She made the right call.

SPEAKER_08 19:38

And again, I don't like the tone. I didn't like his tone at all on that. You know, he said she was being funny when she said it now, and that she was really serious behind it. And a lot of things said in Jess are very, very serious, and she might have been serious about it, but at least she had enough sense to say, put it in a tone that was that wouldn't interrupt the evening. Do you know what I mean when you're talking to somebody?

SPEAKER_07 20:00

Listen, I'm on a double date, and my date grabs and sucks the vape off the other guy. Date over. You know what I mean? In my mind, I am checking out and I am thinking about what I'm gonna watch on Netflix once I get home. Once I get home. Because I've seen all I came to see here. We're good here, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_08 20:24

Absolutely, absolutely. Madison, what do we got next?

SPEAKER_06 20:30

Judgment call.

Family Trauma And Psychological Safety

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Am I the asshole for refusing to go to my mother's house to help my grandson unless my boundaries are respected? For context, my relationship with my mother has been difficult for years. There's a long history of manipulation, guilt trips, and having my feelings dismissed whenever I try to set boundaries. Recently, my daughter needed help because of health issues. I love my grandson and I want to support him. But the expectation was that I go to my mother's house to do so. The problem is that being in the in that environment has been emotionally harmful to me. And every time I try to explain why, I'm told to quote unquote get over it, grow up, or be the bigger person. I wasn't asking anyone to choose sides. I wasn't bringing up old family drama. I simply said that if I came, I needed some basic boundaries respected. And these are the boundaries. No touching me, no hugs, don't bring up certain family members, don't use the visit as an opportunity to criticize, guilt, or lecture me. Focus on helping my grandson and nothing else. Instead of those boundaries being respected, the conversation immediately became about how I was selfish, immature, and making everything about me. From my perspective, setting boundaries isn't punishment. It's what allows me to show up at all. Without them, I'm expected to ignore years of hurt and pretend everything is fine for everyone else's comfort. So am I the asshole for refusing to go unless my boundaries are respected?

SPEAKER_08 22:11

Ish.

SPEAKER_05 22:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 22:14

Can I ask one question first? The fact that she doesn't want to be hugged, touched, and and not around certain members, what does that say to you?

SPEAKER_07 22:27

Ding ding. It perks my psych ears right on up. 90% of how we develop depends on the thing that hurt us the most, right? Our defense mechanism. So don't touch me, don't hug me, and don't mention this name tells me that at some point there was a physical violation and it never got justified, it never got validated, and she never really felt seen, heard, and understood. That's what that's what I hear when I hear her say that.

SPEAKER_08 22:55

Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm always I'm always of the opinion that if you are asking for help, do not demand the help in a certain manner. I mean, if someone is looking to help you out and they need boundaries in order to do it, that's what you do. You don't insist on somebody doing you a favor in the manner that's best for you. If they're going to do you a favor, they have to do it in a manner that they're capable of doing.

SPEAKER_07 23:20

That's right. What I hear her asking for, Judge, is psychological safety, is what I hear her asking for. Sounds like there's been years of invalidation. There's been years of her having to justify the thing that that happened, whatever that boundary violation was. And it sounds like she wants to be a part of it. You know, my mom was old school. She used to say, son, sometimes you got to feed family with a long spoon. You know, which you gotta love. Sometimes you gotta love folks. But from a distance. You know, uh, and it sounds like that's maybe where she is now and she's trying to figure out how to navigate that.

SPEAKER_08 23:56

Yeah. And I think it was really intelligent of her to have her boundaries so specific and so clear. You know, it's just like, don't bother me, I can't stand being over there. She sat down and figured out what specific actions were detrimental to her and asked her not to do that. She didn't say, I'm going, no contact, don't bother me. You know, I can still deal with you, but I have to deal with you with these certain parameters in place.

SPEAKER_07 24:23

Right. She she literally constructed the safe zone for everybody and for her. I I want to be a part of it, but if I am, it's gotta be this. You know what I mean? And so I love the fact that she did that. It's um, yeah, it's it's a way to have that conversation. Uh and she, this is the good framework, and then she can put a button on it by saying, Hey guys, I love you guys. I really do. And I want to be there for grandsons because I love them. However, every time I'm in that environment, I'm triggered because of this, this, and this. Right? And if you want me to be a part of it, I want to help me figure out how to help and be a part of it, but I'm healthy enough now that I know I can't put myself back in that situation. Absolutely. I don't think it's a big ask. What do you think?

SPEAKER_08 25:13

It's not a big ask. And I know, I know what the family's looking at it as. You know, there's a whole lot of rules to you. You know, you can't be touched, you can't be hugged, you this and this and this, things that family normally do. So I understand their attitude towards it, but that denies whatever that underlying act did. It denies it completely. And you have to respect that.

SPEAKER_07 25:36

You got you've got to respect that. Until you can have some validation of what the thing happened did to this person, it goes unresolved. And that's what we're seeing. We're seeing year after year of it not being acknowledged. Until you can acknowledge the boundary violation, you can't heal the boundary violation. And that's where she is.

SPEAKER_08 25:59

Yeah, yeah. So, my judgment call is great boundaries, you know, great communication. Good luck to her.

SPEAKER_07 26:09

Go to Amazon, order an extra long spoon, and serve them up.

SPEAKER_08 26:14

And there you go. There you go. What do we have next, Madison?

SPEAKER_06 26:21

Judgment call.

Marriage Boundaries At Social Events

SPEAKER_04 26:24

So a while back, me and my wife got invited to one of my homeboys' cookouts. I'm talking to everybody, having a good time, laughing. About 20 minutes goes by. I look around. I have no clue where my wife is. I find her sitting by herself. On a drive home, she says, I didn't need you to stay by my side the whole day, but I should have never felt like I came here alone. And that day changed how I saw boundaries. I started thinking, how would I feel if she left me like that at one of her friends' parties? A boundary isn't just telling somebody no. Sometimes it's telling yourself, no matter where I am, I'm never gonna stop being her husband, or I'm never gonna stop being his wife. Protecting your marriage isn't only about who you keep out, it's also never forgetting who's supposed to come first. Yes, please, yes, please.

SPEAKER_08 27:18

I love this guy. I mean to tell you. I mean, he not only did he get criticism from his wife, he didn't get mad about it. He a he asked himself, what is that about? And he put himself in her shoes. And then he was like, Look, boundaries aren't about what you keep in, it's also about what you keep up with and who how you keep the person that's with you. I woo sent chills up my back.

SPEAKER_07 27:47

Empathy in action is what we just saw. He listened, he understood where she was coming from, and he was able to do the now. They did a couple of really cool things. He was able to do the thing that you tell folks to do all the time, which is can you take in new information and use the two Ps, adjust your process and your procedure. Yes, ma'am. That's what he did. Yep.

unknown 28:14

That's what he did.

SPEAKER_08 28:15

That's what he did. He really did. He really did. He thought it through. And it would have been easy to be angry about it. Well, I'm at a party, you know, I can't babysit you. That could be a very easy response. And I would like to ask the people that are uh people that are out there watching this, what is your response? Your spouse, your significant other, they're at a party, they're alone, they're they're holding up the wall. Do you feel you have a responsibility to embrace it?

SPEAKER_07 28:40

Babysitting them, right? Are you gonna babysit is there? Is it your job to babysit, or can you go enjoy the party too? I don't know, right? Yeah. Should she be able to make her own way? You know, she's an adult, she's in the room, right? But she's but she's a strange woman in a strange land because these are his groups of friends, right? There you go. Right? He is he is the Trojan horse. He's how she gets in, and he's got to make the intros. Now, the other thing that the smart thing that she did was she didn't talk about it in the moment of crisis. You tell folks that all the time, also, right?

SPEAKER_08 29:14

Yeah, don't speak about it when you're upset about it. Wait till the time where everybody's reasonable and calm and you can have a conversation as opposed to a confrontation.

SPEAKER_07 29:24

That's right. On the way home, she she she did it and you know, and he received it. Now, listen, I don't know, man, I don't know, but if they're not careful here, the two of them, from what I've seen in this brief snippet, there's there's understanding, there's kindness, there's compassion, there is uh emotional IQ at play here. If the two of them, if the one the way we do one thing is the way we do most things. If this is the way that they're gonna approach conflict resolution in their relationship, if they're not careful, Judge, if they're not super careful, they're gonna be in line for a very long and healthy relationship.

SPEAKER_08 30:06

They're gonna fool around and make it work. They're gonna fool around and make it work because that's one of the most difficult things people have doing is having a conversation about something that they're unhappy about in a positive, uh, respectful manner that produces positive results. And that's what they managed to do.

SPEAKER_07 30:26

I love this brother, the way he was able to take it in and and and not take it personal, be like, as he's telling that story, I can see his wife in my head sitting there alone, feeling lonely and left out. You know what I mean? And I and I can hear the empathy in his, I can hear how he was horrified that he helped her feel that way as he's telling the story. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 30:49

Absolutely, yep. And he had the empathy, he put himself, he actually said it, he put himself in his in her shoes. What would I feel like at a party with her friends? And I was just abandoned.

SPEAKER_07 31:00

Right? Because it's an awkward feeling, you know. You don't know anybody, you don't know how to start those conversations, and the longer you go on your own sitting there, the harder it is to re-engage, you know?

SPEAKER_08 31:12

Yeah, yeah. So my judgment call is look like the future looks bright.

SPEAKER_07 31:16

Future looks bright. I love that. That is emotional IQ in action. I love that.

SPEAKER_08 31:21

In action.

SPEAKER_07 31:22

We don't see that much.

SPEAKER_08 31:23

No, we don't. Madison, we got another Am I the Asshole?

SPEAKER_06 31:29

Judgment call.

The Online Cheerleader And Betrayal

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Am I the asshole for holding firm boundaries after I found out my fiance violated them? So my 34 female fiance, 40 male, has a female friend who's been a problem since the beginning. Backstory. When he introduced me to his parents, we also added each other on social media. He warned me that she was his quote-unquote cheerleader, a big fan of his. Not long after we added each other. I started getting notifications from her liking my posts and pictures in multiple groups from pretty much all social media platforms that I have. Turns out she had thought that they were dating exclusively online. They had never met in person. Things blew up and she blocked me. Later, she unblocked him and they started communicating again. I set boundaries and said that she cannot have me blocked on anything. And I don't want him to discuss our relationship with her ever.

SPEAKER_08 32:37

Could you read the part again about she thought we were who thought who was dating who? Yeah, that's confusing. Turns out she had thought that they were dating. So her boyfriend and the cheerleader, the cheerleader thought the she and the boyfriend were a couple. Correct. Alrighty.

SPEAKER_07 32:55

Keep even though they never met in person. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Correct. This was exclusively online. They had never met in person.

SPEAKER_08 33:03

Alright. Alrighty. Continue on.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

I set boundaries that she cannot have me blocked on anything. I don't want him to discuss our relationship with her ever. Like he can talk to literally anyone and everyone except for her. Two and a half years have gone by, and I discovered after checking his phone, and then she says we have an open phone policy, and he has because he has been unfaithful in the past, that he bashed me and my children to her after we had had a difficult weekend working a hayfield. She responded by continuing to bash me and even said her own children would have done so much better. I have told him in the past that she wants to keep this friendship going. So she has access to him in case we break up. That she would do whatever she can to sabotage any romantic relationship he has because she wants to be with him. He claims that will never happen because he has no interest in her romantically, and it's unfair to ask that he end the friendship and end any contact because he only has a few friends. He's also angry that I went through his phone and found the incriminating evidence. I reminded him that we have an open phone policy and he has offered in the past to let me log into his social media and that I would have no problem with him ever looking through my phone because he will never find anything bad. I expressed to him I do not want to be disrespected like that. And if he continues to choose violating my boundaries, that we will not continue our relationship.

SPEAKER_07 34:50

That took a turn. It took a turn right there, Trump turn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 35:13

And it's it just it seemed like not the main point. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I know that this woman is is annoying and irritating, and it's a weird relationship, especially since they've never met each other.

SPEAKER_07 35:28

Right.

SPEAKER_08 35:28

There's some and his dedication to it is admirable.

SPEAKER_07 35:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 35:34

Depending on how you look at it.

SPEAKER_07 35:37

This listen, it's um, I don't want to say it's messy, but it sure does sound petty on some levels. It sounds uh at best interesting. Um, at worst, it's it's potentially messy. Look, here's what I would tell her. Um, if you're going through your relationships looking for evidence to support your own insecurity, that's all you're ever gonna find. You're gonna find an abundance of evidence. If you're going through your partner's phone looking for evidence, even if it's an open phone policy, if you're going through his phone looking for evidence to support his undoing, then it's gonna be there. You're gonna find it because that's the meaning you're trying to give it. You know what I mean? So I I don't understand that part for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 36:22

I don't understand where she's drawing her boundary at this woman when he's already cheated on her. I don't know how many times, but infidelity has been an issue in the past. I don't know, he cheated on me once is one thing, but if he's he seems to doesn't seem to put her first, he's got an online interest that he's defending even when that online interest is difficult for his lady.

SPEAKER_07 36:47

It is, it is. So that means something, right?

SPEAKER_08 36:50

It's not like an old friend from that from third grade that you've had for 20 years.

SPEAKER_07 36:56

That means that means something. Uh it doesn't mean nothing for sure. I know they've never met, supposedly, in real life. And so we gotta, if that's the facts being presented, we'll go with that. But it means something. I hear what he's saying. Hey, I don't have a lot of friends, and as once guys go over 30, right? The friends you got are the friends you got. It's hard to get out there and make meet new playmates that are strictly platonic. So if that's the thing where he gets to go to vent and all that, we've all got our friend who we vent to about our relationships and things like that, right? When let me let me tell you what they did this time. Oh my god, you're not gonna believe we all have that, and so if that's his place to go, then he's got a right to that.

SPEAKER_08 37:37

However, I have some concerns, especially one because she seems to be interfering. She doesn't seem to be honestly interested in supporting him in her relationship. She seems to be more interested in putting her little fingers in between them and and and and teasing out some you know some attention for herself. I mean, yeah, it would bother me if my husband had some chick online and was defending her to me about I need to talk to her, I need to, and I'm talking to her about you and I'm bashing you.

SPEAKER_07 38:15

Well, let me play devil's advocate. I've never met her. It's just online. I mean, my God, I can't cheat through the phone, can I?

SPEAKER_08 38:25

I mean, the betrayal, the betrayal of of trust is not just a sexual thing. It's like my personal and private business is being shared to someone I don't know, I don't like, who doesn't really know me, and who likes you. I didn't I was I'm at takeoff, I'm at bus ticket, I'm at train, I'm at scooter, get something and get on.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

And on top of that, he's giving the the ghost the ghost chick online ammunition against the city. Oh absolutely, absolutely, and she's not gonna like her. She's not gonna like her, and if there's any hope on on ghost lady's side that this could become a thing, now she's got a little extra hope. She's like, oh, and it's not going well, and he came to me.

SPEAKER_08 39:20

Came to me, and now I just gotta pull out all the stops and everything. Nah, dude was judgment called, dude, just wrong.

SPEAKER_07 39:28

He's dead wrong for that one. He's dead wrong because cheating is a slippery slope. It doesn't happen all at once, right? It happens with the message I probably shouldn't have sent, or the time I sent it, or the thing I said, but I shouldn't have, right? It's a it's a slope, it's a gradient. You don't get there all at once. It's all about the small boundaries that we cross until we get to the railroad tracks, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 39:52

Yeah, I think we agree on that one.

SPEAKER_09 39:54

Mm-mm-mm. Mm-mm-mm.

Final Rules For Setting Boundaries

SPEAKER_08 39:56

That's everything for today. So we were talking about boundaries today, ish. Do you have any final words for me?

SPEAKER_07 40:02

I think yes, use them. Yes, use them. Don't overthink them. No is a complete sentence, right? It's complete. You don't have to explain it, you don't have to justify it. And I think what I have found in my own personal life is, you know, the more I set boundaries and the more I'm firm about where I stand on things, it did the opposite of what I thought. There was a time where I thought people wouldn't like me if I didn't say yes to all these things, right? And I but the more I did it, I was like, oh my God, they respect you more or they like me more. And they look at you and they're like, you know, I need to start doing that screw.

SPEAKER_08 40:37

Right, right, right. And I believe with boundaries, what people need to remember is the boundary has to be clear. You have to be clear in your mind what it is you're saying you don't want, just like that young lady did. I don't want to be hugged, I don't want to be touched. Right. Your boundaries have to be communicated and communicated clearly so people know where they where that line is. And then you have to be consistent with that.

SPEAKER_09 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:59

The boundary has to stay in place even when you need something from that other person.

SPEAKER_07 41:03

Set is your reinforcing behavior. Set the boundary and be consistent with the consequences that you said you were going to follow through on. And don't be shy about repeating that boundary because sometimes people don't hear it on the first go.

SPEAKER_08 41:16

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's this is fun. I enjoyed it. It is fun. It's always fun. I enjoy it. And I'm really looking forward to what people think about other people think about these cases. And these, I always say cases because I'm still.

SPEAKER_07 41:38

It's a case, yeah. Right. It's a it's a case, and because it's a case study, and we're looking at it from so many different angles. So I really want to know what folks think, you know, and uh way in because it's um it's a spectrum of responses. So and everybody's got their own way that they would have handled it. So I'm really curious to see how some of the guys out there might have responded in some of these situations. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 42:00

See you next week, Ish.

SPEAKER_07 42:02

Oh, yes, next week, same bad times.

SPEAKER_08 42:04

All right, for judgment call.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

Take care. She's seen it all from the bench. He's helped couples through it all. Now they're making the call on the internet's biggest relationship debates. Real relationships, real reactions, real talk. This is Judgment Call.